My 2nd Civil Services Interview 30th March 2012

I got 225 out of 300 in this interview.
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Academic Qualifications:               B.Tech (Mech engg), IIT  Kanpur, 2006

            Executive Gen. Mgmt. Prog, IIM Bangalore 2007

Job Experience            :               Areas Sales and Customer Manager, HUL 
                                                   (July 2006 – May 2011)

                                                  Indian Revenue Services (Dec 2011 to Present)
                                                    [not mentioned in Form]

Optionals                    :                Sociology and Public Administration

Home City/State         :                Bokaro, Jharkhand

Hobbies                      :               1. Member, Shiksha Sopan, NGO in Rural Education

           2. Scouting for local delicacies

           3. Reading Non-fiction books

Date of Interview        :               30-03-2012 Forenoon Session

Interview Board          :               Shri P. K. Mishra

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(After the formalities of the documents, photographs etc, I was escorted to the interview room. I was the first to be interviewed and I asked the official escorting me which board it was. He said “P.K.Mishra”. I had not heard anything strongly positive or negative against him but one of my friends had his board a few days back and his interview went quite smooth. So I tried to tell to myself that it should be okay.

Nevertheless, while waiting on the chair outside the Interview Room, butterflies did flutter in my stomach and weird burps did erupt. There were no watches allowed so I don’t know exactly when the interview began. But my guess is that it must be sometime between 10:00 am and 10:05 am that the bell rang and I was escorted in the room.

To my surprise, there were no lady members. I wished the chairman “good morning, sir” quite loudly and then wished others “good morning Sirs”. Mr. Mishra asked me to take the seat. I sat and said “Thank you Sir.”

There were five members (all male), including the chairman)

PKM (P.K.Mishra): So Chandra Mohan, you have worked with Unilever.

CMT: Yes Sir.

PKM: Hmm… So tell me, why did you leave such a good organization. It is such a nice company!

CMT: Sir, I left the company in May 2011 after qualifying the Civil Services Exam. However, I got a service allocated only in November due to some medical unfitness.

PKM: Oh! So you are already in service?

CMT: Yes Sir. I am in the Revenue Services.

PKM: Nevertheless, why did you leave HUL to come to government? Nothing works in the government and nobody bothers. You had a much better life there. (I had seen this coming !!)

CMT: Sir, it was during my work in HUL that I was sent to work on Corporate Social Responsibility Project in Maharashtra. (PKM starts showing some interest and nodded as if saying,”yeah yeah!! Go ahead”). Sir, it was a Project Bhavishya undertaken by HUL, ICICI bank, Government of Maharashtra and UNICEF. Though, my job was more technical and similar to what I normally did in HUL, that is, work on improving the supply chain efficiencies in ICDS, Public health Centers etc. But the fact that my work impacted the life of a lot of people gave me a unique sense of satisfaction. If two months of that work in social sector was so satisfying, a full time job in that area would be more fulfilling. Also, Sir, I have been associated with an NGO in Kanpur in the field of education and there too, my satisfaction from the work was huge.

So, Sir, I decided to join the government to do full time work in social sector.

PKM: Hmm… but what did you notice in the government setup?

CMT: Sir, I would say that there was not so much a dearth of funds or resources but it was more about the implementation efficiency at the ground level and I thought there is a lot I could contribute to that. Also individuals were more interested in their own careers rather than the larger organizational goal.

PKM: Chandra Mohan, How has your perception about government changed after you have joined the government?

CMT: (I wasn’t sure what he wanted me to say, nevertheless) Sir, I think my perception has remained the same that individuals in the government get a little too engrossed in their own careers and somehow overlook the broader goals of the organization. This was something I had observed earlier also and I see this even after joining the government.

PKM: (he kept looking at the member to his left while asking every question, as if seeking his view on this) But the perception about government is that it doesn’t deliver. How was your perception? Was it positive and is it still positive? (He said with a “the-country-has-gone-to-dogs” expression on his face)

CMT: Sir, my perception has been positive only. I had seen the government system working in Maharashtra and we were sent to Coimbatore to see how ICDS works better there and I saw how government systems can perform well.

PKM: So, if you reach a high position in the government, what would you change, improve efficiency, leadership, what?

CMT: Sir, I think I would focus on aligning individuals to the organization’s goal and ensuring that the ground officials had measurable deliverables which are linked to the organization’s goal, on which they could measure their performance on a daily or a weekly basis.

PKM: (Not very happy with what he heard) That you said already, what else you would focus on. Say, you are responsible for providing services. What would you change, in terms of deliveries etc?

CMT: Sir, I would focus on transparency and…

PKM: hmm… Transparency, ok good. What else?

CMT: Also sir, I would ensure that something like a Citizen’s Charter is there, where we are forthcoming in outlining what services we shall offer to our customers or clients or citizens and mentioning timelines against them. Also sir, there should be a redressal mechanism, in case, someone is not satisfied with the services rendered.

PKM: But Chandra Mohan, this Citizen Charter, Redressal Mechanism etc are already there. Right?

(I give him the “what-else-should-I-say” look with my typical vulnerability on face)

PKM: No no. You are right. All this should be there. You are quite right. (Vulnerable looks work!) But what would you do in particular?

CMT: Sir, as a leader, I would focus on bringing about a motivation in the field officials about how their job is not a mere job but is related to a larger goal. That would ensure that they do their work more efficiently. Sir, during my job in HUL as a sales manager, I used to emphasize to my salesmen and the sales officers how their job was not mundane and contributed to the organization as a whole.

Also sir, if I may narrate an incident (PKM gives the “go-ahead” look). During my work in Nasik in ICDS, I asked the Child Development Project Officer, Mr. Gaekwad what was his motivation to take so much pain in his job. He asked me what motivated me in my job. I told him that it gives me immense pleasure to see that people are using our brands, the brands that I work for. (PKM nodded affirmatively.) He said that he also finds the pleasure when he moves around in his district and sees healthier kids around.

Sir, by connecting his normal job with this larger goal, his motivation levels were  very high and I think that the senior leadership should focus on emphasizing that field officials see the larger picture and feel similar motivation.

PKM: Hmm… tell me what is the concept of Disaster? (at this point he peeked into a piece of paper and  I guess it was a list of general questions that he had written down to be asked to candidates)

CMT: (I had read about Disaster Management during mains and didn’t remember exact details. In fact, in the mains too, I had chosen not to attempt the Disaster Management question in Public administration. But here I had to attempt) Sir, umm… disasters could be of two types, natural and man-made, natural disasters being earthquake, fire etc…

PKM: (cutting me in between and looking at his fellow members) oh ho!! You started giving examples bhai! I am asking what is disaster.

(Oh god!! He wants me to say the definition! But I don’t remember any. Why not take a pause and construct some definition. I paused a little too long and probably appeared clueless, so PKM said again)

PKM: Arre. I am not asking you to define it. The examples you cited can only be used to explain what disaster is.

CMT: Yes sir. I would say disaster is an unprecedented event that occurs suddenly and causes unforeseen damages..umm

PKM: Damage to life and property?

CMT: Yes sir, damage to life and property.

PKM: (looking back into his sheet on the side and virtually reading from it) In disaster management the emphasis has shifted from a relief-centered approach to proactive approach. Your comments on this?

CMT: (this was more like a GS mains question) Sir, earlier the focus of disaster management used to be on providing relief to the ones affected, but now having witnessed many disasters, we can learn from our experiences (suddenly loud coughing began by the member to the right of PKM i.e, M1, however I still continued) and can devise systems…

(the coughing became too loud and PKM couldn’t hear what I said. He made the face of “Pardon-can-you-come-again”. I tried speaking but then he showed me the hand gesture of “wait-till-he-is-done-coughing”. The member coughed at ease, and then apologized. I don’t know why I also said “Sorry Sir” to the coughing member as if my answers made him feel so bad )

Sir I was saying that we have learnt from our experiences and can now devise ways in which we can proactively prepare for various disasters.

For example, sir, in an earthquake, we now know which are the earthquake prone regions and accordingly we could prepare. We can have buildings which are earthquake sensitive (oops!! I should have said ‘resistant’) and do less damage. Also we can involve the local authorities to coordinate evacuations. We can also have a Warning system where we could inform people about a disaster beforehand so that people could be moved out in time and damages could be minimized.

Sir, such measures would not only reduce the damage but also save the costs that we today incur on the relief measures.

PKM: Hmm… Is there a law or act also for this purpose?

CMT: (This is not good. I don’t remember NDMA details, how would I sail through it?) Yes sir. I think there is a National Disaster Management Act (PKM nodding his head affirmatively) and an authority too.

PKM: Yes. Yes. So tell me about the National Disaster Management Authority.

CMT: (GOD!! I should have ducked earlier. Now What?) Sir, I don’t remember the exact details of the act.

PKM: It’s ok. You just tell me what it does. Who is the Chairman of this authority?

CMT: Sorry Sir, I don’t remember that exactly.

PKM: Doesn’t matter. You know something about how it works?

CMT: Sir, the National Disaster Management Authority works in coordination with the local authorities and at a district level, I think, it is headed by the District Collector.

PKM: National se seedhe District par aa gaye? There is a State level also?

CMT: Yes Sir. There is a Regional Disaster Management Authority at the state level. And at the local level the authority works in coordination with local authorities. Also, I think, there are designated forces for relief work, including members from different security forces. I don’t remember much details of it sir.

PKM: What is Vulnerability at Last/Loss (I am not sure whether he said last or loss)

CMT: Pardon Sir. Is it a term that you asked?

PKM: Have you not heard of the concept of Vulnerability at Last/Loss (couldn’t make out this time too). It is such an important document.

CMT: Sorry Sir. I haven’t heard about it.

PKM: Ok.

(Passes on the first member to his right, the “coughing” guy)

(M1 starts flipping pages of my summary sheet and appeared that he had not yet thought a question. There was an awkward silence for about 5-6 seconds. I noticed that PKM was staring me. I looked at him, smiled and started looking at M1 again.)

M1: Chandra Mohan, You come from Bokaro. The steel city. So what do you know about steel and various types of steel?

CMT: (I remembered only as much as my dad had narrated to me last night and I wanted to vomit it totally before I forgot any details) Sir, I haven’t worked in the steel sector myself but I am aware of the basics of steel making. (He gave me the “go-ahead” look). Sir, steel is made from iron, after mixing it with carbon, nickel, chromium etc. Depending on the quantity of carbon used, we get different types of steel. Steel is more strong and durable than iron, especially stainless steel. 

(And then as if my dad’s entire conversation came in a flash) Sir, first the iron-ore is mixed with limestone etc and melted in a blast furnace. From there we get Pig Iron which is then mixed with carbon, nickel etc. and it is called Ingot. Then it is moved to the Slabbing Mill whereafter the steel moves through the Hot Rolling Mill and the Cold Rolling Mill at the end of which steel sheets are made which are then sent to market (SIGH!!! Finally, I had made my dad proud !!!)

PKM: He is asking about other steel plants. Tell him about them.

CMT: Sir, within the SAIL itself, there are other plants. Like there is one in Bhilai, and in Rourkela and in Burnpur.

M1: And?

CMT: And sir, there’s also one in Salem which makes the finished products like utensils etc. Outside SAIL, there’s Tata Steel in Jamshedpur. Also sir, there’s a SAIL Plant in Durgapur. (Now I gave a blank look, the “what-exactly-do-you-want-to-hear” blank look.)

M1: What about other Private Steel Plants?

CMT: (I just couldn’t think of any) Sorry Sir, can’t remember.

M1: JSW? (I heard it GSW)

CMT: Sorry sir. Haven’t heard about it.

M1: Jindal Steel!! You haven’t heard about it?

CMT: Oh Yes Sir. I know about Jindal Steel but I am not sure if it has a plant in Jharkhand, so didn’t recall its name.

PKM: Yeah yeah, it doesn’t have a plant in Jharkhand may be.

CMT: Yes Sir. But I know that Jindal Steel exists.

M1: Ok. (Starts flipping my summary sheet again) So you have Public Administration as one of your subjects. So tell me about District Administration.

CMT: Sir, the District Administration is one of the most important components of the entire governmental setup (Yeah. Is that new?) and Sir it encompasses various areas like revenue administration, law and order and implementation of social sector development projects. The lynchpin of the District Administration is the District Collector who is also know by different names in different parts of the country. With Panchayati Raj coming in, he is also the key coordinator between the Zila Parishad and the district administrative officials.

M1: What is another name that the Collector is called by?

CMT: Sir, he is also called as Deputy Commissioner.

M1: (He didn’t hear what he wanted to hear) The name that shows his job about law and order?

CMT: Sir, District Magistrate?

M1: (BINGO!!!) So tell me about the magisterial powers of the DM. (PKM also starts showing interest. Before this he was scribbling something)

CMT: Sir, earlier the DM had judicial magisterial powers as well and could hear cases, but now it is only restricted to executive magisterial powers. He can invoke the provisions of IPC in situations of law and order problem like Section 144.

PKM: CrPC!!

CMT: (What? Who said that? I turned to PKM) Yes sir, also CrPC

PKM: Not ALSO, only CrPC!!

CMT: Oh Yes Sir. The DM can invoke provisions of CrPC and not IPC. Sorry Sir.

M1: So tell me, which are the provisions of CrPC that he can invoke (He had this smug look in his face, the “ab-batao-bachhu” look)

CMT: Sorry Sir, I wouldn’t know the exact provisions.

PKM: Yes. It’s ok. You are not supposed to remember. It’s fine.

M1: (flipping through my form again) Oh!!! So you have the hobby of Scouting…for local delicacies. (Everyone smiles as if they just heard a joke). So what do you do?

CMT: (I smiled too. This was my moment to show my lighter side..or maybe the ‘heavier’ side J) Sir, my job involved a lot of travel and wherever I went I asked the local retailers about the famous street food in that city and then went on to have it myself. Sir, today I can say I am a proud owner of a list of about 70-80 food items of the country.

Sir, during my stay in Nagpur in the last few months, I found out about a special style of cooking in Nagpur called ‘Saoji’. It uses a lot of red spices and lots of oil and makes very delicious non-vegetarian dishes. (Me eyes had started lightening up with this conversation and I didn’t want to stop. The board was smiling,g looking at each other and giving me the “Aww-sho-cute-sho-shweet” look).

I also write about these dishes, at times, on my blogs and people also seek my opinion when they visit these cities.

M1: So you blog also?

CMT: Yes Sir. Once in a while.

M1: And people ask for your suggestions?

CMT: Sir, at least my close circle of friends seek my suggestion. For example, one of my friends was travelling from Amritsar to Jallandhar and called me to ask where he could get good food. I told him that right off the highway near Jallandhar, there is Haveli where he could get Poori Sabji which has authentic Punjabi Taste. (I could have gone on and on but then everybody was already feeling heavy of such ‘greasy’ talks)

(M1 passed the baton to M2. He was a dude. In a French grey beard, heavy and chubby like me. Also with a cute intellectual look.)

M2: So Chandra Mohan. (without looking into my forms) Have you heard about NAM?

CMT: Yes Sir. The Non-Alignment Movement

M2: Don’t you think that it has lost its relevance today. Also there are many regional groups coming up now. There is this BRICS becoming active. Do you know what BRICS is?

CMT: Yes Sir. It is a consortium of five nations. Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

M2: Hmm… so don’t you think that the NAM has lost its significance and regional groupings have gained prominence?

CMT: (I again see PKM looking at me, so I try to look at everybody while answering) Sir, I don’t think NAM has lost its significance. It is true that the basis of its foundation no longer exists as the Cold War is over and there are no longer two rival blocs. Yet, Sir, I would say that NAM is an important forum where developing nations can come together and voice their concerns on various global issues. For example, NAM could be used to air the concerns of developing nations with relations to WTO etc.

About the regional groupings Sir, I think we have learned from the ASEAN experience that when countries sideline their political differences and come together to cooperate for an economic goal, all countries benefit. On this ground only, various regions are forming their groups for economic advantage.

BRICS, in that sense, Sir, is a group consisting of nations of different continents, each of them being an emerging economy. It is a relatively new idea where all the emerging nations can get together to present a unified face in front of the global polity on various issues.

M2: Hmm… But don’t you think that earlier India had a leadership role in institutions like NAM etc but it is no longer the leader of the small nations. It appears that India is more focused on its relationship with the USA.

CMT: (looking at PKM for an approval) No Sir. I don’t agree (PKM giving me “jiyo-mere-laal” look) I think India is well aware of its responsibility as a leader of the smaller nations and it has ensured that no nation is ignored in its foreign policy. It has continued to interact with the smaller nations both on a bilateral as well as a multilateral manner.

Also, Sir, our friendly relations with the US are more driven by our own self interest needs (M2 nods affirmatively) for example the economic and the defense needs. Moreover, India still professes an independent foreign policy and makes sure that its warm bilateral relations with one nation doesn’t affect its relations with other nations. (Somewhere during this, mobile phone of M3 or M4 rang. But I didn’t bother. The mobile was quickly switched off and the member apologized to PKM)

(M2 passes then to M3, who is sitting to my immediate right, that is, second to the left of PKM)

M3: (looking into my forms) Chandra Mohan, you have taken Sociology as one of your optionals. So tell me, how has reading sociology helped you?

CMT: Sir, I had read some sociology in college as part of our B.Tech Programme. Sir, reading a subject like Sociology helped me understand the society around me. I understood that all societies have their norms and values and that no values are right or wrong, it is just different for different societies, depending on the evolution of that particular society.

(M3 wanted me to go on) Also sir, I understood how various institutions of the society perform different functions for society and how each institution has both functions as well as dysfucntions for society. (PKM gave me the “Get-to-specifics” look) Sir, like the institutions of Family (“OK” nod by M3), Marriage, Poverty, Crime, Economy, Politics and various such institutions have different functions for society.

(M3 still wanted more, so I went on) Sociology also exposed me to various ideologies. For example the Marxist philosophy, the Functionalist way of looking at institutions. Also some new ideologies like post-modernism etc helped me realize how same situation can be seen and interpretated in various ways.

Sir, I would say, that sociology widened my perspective and helped me appreciate that various views on a single thing are possible. While my education in science made me aware of the technical aspects, the reading of sociology helped me understand the broader aspects of society.

M4: You talked about dysfunctions. What institutions do you think are dysfunctional to society?

CMT: Sir, I don’t think we can categorize any institution as completely dysfunctional to society. When Robert K. Merton also talks about functions, non-functions and dysfunctions, he mentions that an institution can have all of them.

Sir, I would say that it is a matter of degree and some institutions could be more dysfunctional than the other. For example, if I may call Crime as an institution, while it is functional to the few who benefit from it, it is largely dysfunctional to the society at large.

Similarly, Sir, the Caste system is dysfunctional to the people placed at the lowest strata while it may be functional to the ones placed at the top strata. So sir, I think each institution is dysfunctional or functional to the society, up to different extents.

M4: Ok. You were talking about perception about Coimbatore and how it was different from perception about Jharkhand. Why such difference in perception?

CMT: Sir, the times in which I grew up, when Jharkhand was still part of Bihar, we grew up with the perception that nothing works in the government. We would hear jokes about how nothing moves in Bihar Sarkaar while things would work under the Bokaro Steel Limited. So I never questioned this perception that governments don’t deliver.

But, Sir, when I was sent to Coimbatore to see how ICDS and Aanganwadi system works there quite well, I saw that even in a tribal village, there were tap water connections in each house and also electricity. My first reaction was that it’s a bluff and it is actually not a tribal village. May be we are visitors, so the officials are showing us a developed village. I asked the residents what did they do for livelihood. Most of them were labourers in nearby tea fields and earned hardly 1500 to 2000 rupees every month.

I asked them how they could have tap water and electricity in their home. They told me that government ensured all that. There was no malnourished child in the village and every child got a healthy nutrition at the Aanganwadi.

This made my perception that governments can deliver if projects are implemented well.

(M3 then passed to M4 who seemed not too ready with questions)

M4: Hmm… Chandra Mohan, continuing from the discussion, you would agree that corruption is at both places, in Tamil Nadu as well as in Jharkhand. Then why do you think things work in Tamil Nadu while they don’t work in Jharkhand?

CMT: Sir, I think, that in places like Bihar and Jharkhand, people see the government as something very big and they see themselves as mere beneficiaries. While in Tamil Nadu I saw people being more assertive about their rights and demanding a lot from the government. Also I found that the local bodies like the Panchayats were much more proactive.

M4: But why do you think that is so?

CMT: Sir, It could be because Tamil Nadu has more literacy and better education which makes the people there more aware about their rights. Also it makes the Panchayati Raj institutions more powerful. I saw how there were Mother’s Committees in villages which made surprise checks on schools to see if the kids got good education and also on aanganwadis to see if the kids got good food. (M4 nods affirmatively)

M4: So you were working at Hindustan Unilever. Is it there that you did the EGMP? (He was talking about the Executive General Management Programme at IIM Bangalore in my form) Was it sponsored  by HUL?

CMT: Yes sir, it was a part of the Business Leadership Training Programme.

M4: Was it a full one year course? (I just realized that he was fully aware of the EGMP thing)

CMT: No sir. It was a condensed course of about 6 weeks where classes were held daily and stuff more related to our job were taught.

M4: So don’t you think that you made a loss to HUL when they invested so much in you and you left. I can see that after the training they even nearly doubled your package from 8 lakh to 15 lakh.

CMT: (I smiled) Sir, in fact when I was resigning the package had become 22 lakh. (On hearing this PKM made a weird face. Either he was stunned or he found me boasting and rude.) But sir, I worked in Hindustan Unilever for four and a half years and I did quite well there. In fact, in the two years that I was appraised, I was rated the best Area Sales Manager and was also awarded in one of the years. (It was really difficult to sound modest at this moment, though I tried my best). However, my work there only made the shareholders happy, while my work in government would make the common people happy. That was the motivation in working with the government.

M4: Hmm… So what non-fiction do you read? (Referring to my hobby)

CMT: Sir, I generally read books on Indian History from independence onwards. But I also read biographies and recently I have read the Biography of Gandhiji by Jad Adams

M4: So what’s there in the book?

CMT: Sir, the book “Gandhi: Naked Ambition” by Jad Adams talks about various contradictions in Gandhiji’s life. For example, how he was very upright in his public life but as a father he was very strict to his children. I found this interesting and hence picked up the book to read, though I have read other biographies of Gandhi as well.

M4: (smilingly, as if finding me trapped) So how has the book changed your perception about him?

CMT: Sir, first of all, I would like to mention that the book has been a little biased. While it has praised the European, British and Christian values of Gandhiji, it has criticized the values which were a little earthy and Indian.

M4: But has it changed your perception about Gandhiji?

CMT: Sir, whatever contradictions the book talks about were things that Gandhiji was himself aware of and also has written about them. If Gandhiji was alive today he would have taken these criticisms very happily and that is what inspires me in him, that he was always ready to accept his shortcomings. I think he was his best critic and that humility in Gandhiji has kept inspiring me. After reading this book too, my praise for Gandhiji has only grown.

(M4 passes back the baton the PKM. He pauses for a second and then says, “OK. Chandra Mohan, your interview is over. You can go now.” I was a little perplexed at the sudden end. I was expecting some final questions from the Chairman. Nevertheless, I walked out thanking the board. I had thought that I will look back at the board before exiting the door, but just didn’t. I just walked out. I asked an official sitting outside what time it was. He said 10:35 am.)

My Civil Services Interview 2010 (Held on 13th April 2011)

I wrote down my interview on 13th April itself, hours after my interview. But couldn't dare to post it before the results. Having qualified now with Rank 292, am posting my interview script here. As and when the interview marks come, I shall also post the marks I was awarded for this interview.


(Marks arrived on 17th May 2011. I have been awarded 213 out of 300 for the following interview)

MY CIVIL SERVICES INTERVIEW

Chandra Mohan Thakur

Academic Qualifications       :        B.Tech (Mech engg), IIT  Kanpur, 2006

    Executive Gen. Mgmt. Prog, IIM Bangalore 2007

Job Experience                    :        Areas Sales and Customer Manager, HUL (July 2006 – Present)

Optionals                             :        Sociology and Public Administration

Home City/State                  :        Bokaro, Jharkhand

Hobbies                               :        1. Member, Shiksha Sopan, NGO in Rural Education

    2. Scouting for local delicacies

    3. Reading Non-fiction books

Date of Interview                 :        13-04-2011 Forenoon Session

Interview Board Chairman   :        Lt. Gen. Nirbhay Sharma

(After doing the formalities with the documents etc, I was told that I would be the first one in my group to be interviewed. I told myself that it is good that the board would be fresh in morning and I would get sufficient attention. I asked the official when we would know about the board. He said, “Only when the first person is called. So when you go, then the others will know which board is it”. Well, that meant I would have no chance to react or plan according to the board. So I decided not to think about the board. At about 10 am, an official came and called my name and asked me to accompany him. Midway, I asked him which board was it. He said Nirbhay Sharma. “What!!! “, I screamed in my head. “Lieutenant General Nirbhay Sharma. God knows what he would ask me.” I hadn’t read much about him but thought that being an army man he would be tough and would expect me to be tough as well.

Sitting outside the boardroom, I asked the peon if there was a lady member. He said there was one. I started rehearsing in my mind. “Good Morning Ma’am, Good Morning Sirs”.

By 10:05 am, I was called in. As I walked in, I saw only 4 men and a vacant chair for the lady. I quickly swallowed the rehearsed “Good Morning Ma’am” and said Good Morning Sir. Thinking that I should have said ‘Sirs’, I once again said, “Good Morning Sirs”. Nirbhay Sharma gave a smile and asked me to take seat.

I thanked him and took my seat.)

Nirbhay Sharma (looking into my form): So, Chandra Mohan, I see your bio data is quite loaded. You have IIT, then IIM Bangalore, NCC. Hmm… Now the only thing missing is Civil Services. Huh?

(I grinned, said nothing)

So, you are working as well.

CMT: Yes sir, in Hindustan Unilever as an Areas Sales and Customer Manager.

NS:  You have been working for about four and a half years now? Hmm…

CMT: Yes sir.

(He continues…)So you scout for local delicacies (one of my mentioned hobbies)

CMT: Yes Sir. My job involves a lot of travel and so whenever I go to a place I look for some famous local street food by asking the retailers about it.

NS: and then you have a good helping of it? (grins)

CMT: (blushingly) yes sir.

NS: So, you are a foodie!!

CMT: Yes sir, I am. (Everyone Laughs).

(He asks the first member, a male, to ask questions.)

M1: Chandra Mohan, today is a Restricted Holiday. Do you know on what basis is a restricted holiday decided?

(First of all, I didn’t know if today was a holiday at all, neither did I know anything about a restricted holiday. But it was my first question to be answered. I had to say something)

CMT: Sir, I am not very sure about it, but I think Gazetted Holidays are the ones which are mandatory for all organizations while Restricted Holidays are probably optional. I am not very sure, sir.

M1: Actually, these are State specific. Well, on what basis are they decided?

(I thought, “Dude, I just said I don’t know, why are you asking again?”)

CMT: Sir, I am not aware about it.

M1: Still, tomorrow you will join the government, how will you decide on Restricted Holidays.

(I had to say something now)

CMT: Sir, I would look at the local cultural factors, the religious sentiments of the region and local festivals etc. and decide accordingly..

M1: Ok. How many type of New Years are celebrated in India?

(“Are you obsessed with holidays??” I thought)

CMT: Sir there is one Christian Calendar whose New Year falls on 1^st of January (Yeah yeah… as if it was news)

M1: Is it really a “Christian” Calendar?

CMT: Sir, technically it is called the Gregorian Calendar. Then there is Vikram Samvat which is followed by Hindus and whose New Year falls on the first day of Shukla Paksha of Chaitra. There is also an Islamic Calendar whose new year I am not aware of and there is the Shaka Calendar whose new year too, I don’t know.

M1: What is the basis of these calendars?

CMT: Sir, they are dependent on different histories belonging to different religions.

M1: No no… I mean are they on lunar basis or solar basis?

CMT: Sir, the Gregorian Calendar is on the solar basis while the Vikram Samvat is on the lunar basis. I am not aware about the other calendars.

M1: When does a new year begin in a lunar calendar?

CMT: Sir, the new year begins from the first day of Shukla Paksha that is, just the day after Amavasya when the new moon makes appearance. The Months actually begin just after Poornima, but New year is celebrated on the 16^th day of the first month as shukla paksha signifies new light coming in life

M1: If you see any government calendar, you would notice that there is one official Indian Calendar. What calendar is it?

(The lady member walks in. I pause and wish her good morning. She smiles and sits back.)

CMT: Sir, Pardon me. I missed your question.

M1: I was asking which is the government’s calendar and on what basis is the government’s calendar made? You must have seen the government holidays mentioned on the calendars.

CMT: Sir, I think it is the Shaka calendar but about the basis, I haven’t read much. I do not know.

M1: Fine (Points to the second member, another male)

M2: Chandra Mohan, You were just talking about the New Years (Was I?Dude, it was he who started it. Come on!!) So which New year falls tomorrow?

CMT: Sorry Sir, I am not aware about it.

M2: It is the Tamil New Year.

CMT: Ok Sir. (As if I cared!!!)

M2: Whose birthday is it tomorrow? (Oh Man!! That’s it. I am done with calendars. I had no clue one has to be so thorough on dates. I am screwed big time)

CMT: Sorry Sir. I can’t remember.

M2: Ambedkar’s. (He gave me the look as if I was the most stupid man he had ever seen who doesn’t even remember birthdays. I guess most men have such trouble remembering birthdays, don’t they? L)

CMT: Oh. Yes Sir.

M2: Actually it is a nice coincidence that Tamil New Year and Ambedkar’s birthday falls on the same day. 

Actually it is something like blah blah balh… the way it is for  Sankranti etc.. blah blah blah…

CMT: Yes Sir. (Phew !!!)

M2: So, what is the significance of today in Tamil Nadu? (That’s it. Hands up)

CMT: Sorry Sir. No idea.

M2: What do you know about Tamil Nadu.

CMT: Sir, that it is one of the most developed states of the country….

Nirbhay Sharma: Chandra Mohan!

CMT: Yes Sir

NS: There’s a glass of water kept in front of you. Why don’t you drink some water? Do not get tensed.

CMT: (trying hard to smile) No sir. It’s okay.

NS: No no. Have a sip. Water is a very good thing. It shall help you.

(I pick up the glass and felt like gulping it totally but just took a sip and kept it back)

NS: Now tell us what is happening in Tamil Nadu today which is very important?

CMT: Sir, the elections are taking place?

NS: See, the water helps.

CMT: Yes Sir, it does (Everyone smiles, including me.)

M2: Well, Chandra Mohan, when I was young, while studying Indian Economy we only studied about agricultural economy. But today it is not like that. There is no attention on agriculture and it has lost its share in GDP also. It has also affected the social setup of agricultural families. What do you think?

CMT: Sir, I think that Industrialization and growth of services sector is important for a country’s development. And with development, the share of agriculture in GDP is bound to reduce. But that does not mean that agriculture is becoming less important. It only means that today, agriculture is no longer such a wholesome occupation which can sustain entire families. While twenty years ago, entire family could earn handsomely just by agriculture and they did not need any formal education to make money, it isn’t so today. It is required that members of agricultural family venture into industrial and services sector also and thus the direct dependence of population on agriculture should reduce.

M2: But what would happen to food security? Agriculture is so important for food.

CMT: Sir, the government is very much aware of the problem of food security and necessary attention on agriculture in this regard is being given.

M2: But don’t you think, that despite having self sufficiency in food production, the issue of food security is still so much in debate. Why?

CMT: Sir, the problem in food security is not so much of production, but about distribution, storage, pilferage (M2 starts nodding his head affirmatively, still I continue) of purchasing power and empowerment.

M2: You seem to have travelled much. How do you see the different social settings today?

(I didn’t understand his question well. Still I began)

CMT: Sir I have mostly travelled in Northern India only.

M2: No problem.

CMT: Sir, should I contrast, say Punjab and Haryana, according to their social setups?

M2: No no. I am asking what impacts do you observe of globalization on the Indian Society?

CMT: Well, Sir, Under the influence of globalization, the Indian society is becoming more receptive to modern and western values like democracy, equality, individual freedom etc.

M2: Oh ho!! You are talking about polity and governance. I am asking about impact on society.

CMT: Sir, in society as well, the youth is challenging the caste system and do not go by caste even while marrying. Also, due to expansion of internet, youth is interacting with people across borders and imbibing newer modern values. Yet some of the Indian values are still kept intact for example, the value of respecting elders.

M2: What effect does globalization have on family?

CMT: Sir, industrialization had already brought nuclear families into urban society. Globalization has added to that trend. Also, a growing number of live-in relationships have also been coming up and people are becoming quite comfortable about it. The judiciary also treats it as permissible kind of family system. (An affirmative nod again J)

(M2 passes on to M3, the sole lady member)

M3: I am sorry I am late. Actually I come from Greater Noida, so I guess it is expected. I might have missed on some interesting part of the initial discussion. (I smiled and thought, “no problem lady you came in right when I was being butchered for the numerous calendars we have, you didn’t miss any fun, trust me”) So, I see you have mention about your work in Rural Education

CMT: Yes ma’am, in an NGO called Shiksha Sopan.

M3: Yes. And also you are working in an MNC in sales and marketing. First I would like to ask you about the NGO, Shiksha Sopan. I hope it hasn’t been asked already. And then I would come to the marketing part. First about Shiksha Sopan.

CMT: Ma’am. It is an NGO which was started in 2001 by some IIT Students and Prof. H. C. Verma. I joined it in 2002. It has three goals, Shiksha, Sanskar and Svavalamban, that is, education, character building and self-dependence. Presently we have a fully operational school where we teach till class 8. We also have three evening centres where we supplement the education of students of regular schools. We also have a Gahan Adhyayan Kendra especially focused on children of class 10^th and 12^th where we target the board exams specifically. In addition to that, we also have a fully functional Science Lab, where the children perform experiments in Physics and Chemistry. These children, whose parents are mostly agricultural labourers and rickshaw-pullers are today quite comfortable with these experiments and also go for science exhibitions. (on the science lab part, she seemed visibly impressed) When I was at IIT, ma’am, I worked as a teacher in Shiksha Sopan for four years. After joining my job, my role has mostly been confined to providing financial assistance and seeking funding for our programmes.

M3: Ok. You are working in marketing sector. So do you work on some specific products?

CMT: Yes ma’am. I look after cosmetics and premium care products like Lakme, Pond’s, Dove etc.

M3: Ok. So you would have heard about the FDI in retail. What’s your take on it?

CMT: Ma’am. There are apprehensions regarding the plan of introducing FDI in retail among the unorganized retail sector of India. As the present Indian retail sector is highly unorganized, so the small grocers and mom-and-pop stores are quite apprehensive about the entry of the big foreign retail players. But I think, ma’am, their apprehensions are not well founded. I have noticed that even after the entry of the indigenous organized retailers like the Future’s Group’s Big Bazaar and Reliance etc, these small grocers were quite apprehensive. But only few shops got affected which did not adapt according to changing times.

Most of the stores changed themselves to self service format and with their personalized relations with the customers and the facility of home delivery and credit, they have survived the coming up of the big retailers. So, they are now aware of the challenges they would be posed with entry of foreign retailers and they would be more prepared for it. (She nodded in agreement)

I think it is a ripe time when indigenous organized retail has been around for a substantial amount of time, that foreign retailers should be let into the Indian market. If there are apprehensions, may be we shouldn’t do it at a go but gradually let the foreign retailers enter the market.

M3: What are the present FDI guidelines in retail?

CMT: Ma’am, in case of wholesale, I think 100% FDI is allowed. That is how Wal Mart has come up with its Best Price shops. In terms of retail, I think 26% or 49% FDI is allowed, I don’t remember exactly, ma’am. And so Wal Mart has come up with a Joint Venture in form of Easy Day Stores. Also, ma’am, in case of Single Brand Retail there is 100% FDI and that is how Nike and Reebok have come up in India. The debate presently is about introducing 100% FDI in multi-brand retail.

M3: Hmm… You were mentioning about brands like Nike and Reebok. Don’t you think that in the name of Brand Equity, these products are overpriced and with their entry into rural markets, they would have an adverse effect on the not-so-well section of the society.

CMT:  Ma’am. I don’t agree on that.  I think the big companies are aware of the challenges of the rural sector. In fact, to take an example from my present company, our Dove Shampoo has a great brand appeal. But when we venture into the rural markets we offer the same brand equity in form of low priced sachets. This does not hit the rural consumer’s pocket very badly. Ma’am, with the penetration of media in the villages, the awareness about brands is already there and hence aspirations to experience those brands exist. If the brands deliver what they promise, then I think the rural people can also access these brands in a manner that they get an experience and it doesn’t affect their pocket also. (She seemed quite convinced)

M3: Ok. One of your hobbies is reading Non-fiction books (smiles. I smile back too). And you are in marketing. So have you read the book “Blah-blah-blah” by “Mr. So and So” (I had neither heard of them earlier nor could I hear them now). It is about marketing.

CMT: No ma’am. I haven’t heard about this book. (I felt like saying that I don’t read marketing books and giving her a list of books I read, but I found it unnecessary and so stopped at that)

M3: Yeah. Actually it’s a 1960 book, so you might not have read it. It is quite a nice book about advertising. Never Mind. (She passes on to M4, a male)

M4: (with a big smile) So, Mr. Thakur!! You seem to have a good education and you are working in a reputed company. Why do you want to come to the government?

CMT: (I smiled first and then said) Sir, the idea of joining the government came during one of the CSR Projects that I was working on behalf of HUL. It was Project Bhavishya in Maharashtra where I was posted for a month and we were to help the government in improving supply chain efficiencies in ICDS and PDS. During that one month stay, I travelled to the tribal villages of Nasik and saw what interventions the government was making in those places. I was quite surprised to see the Nasik CDPO very charged up and excited about his job. In one of our conversations I asked him, “why are you so excited about your job. After all it is just a job where you get a salary which is quite less than what I get.” Sir, he answered back brilliantly saying, “What you do in HUL changes the way people look and feel about themselves, but what I do changes the way children in my district grow up. If I work well, then children of my district will grow healthier”. I was quite amazed at his conviction and the satisfaction he drew from the job. (By now I thought, they would give me a standing ovation but they had a pretty blank look on their face.)

Also, as a part of the project we were sent to Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu where ICDS works quite well and I visited a tribal village where the excellent electricity supply and tap water facilities in all homes amazed me. I realized the potential that governments had to intervene in the social life of people and I decided I want to be part of it.  Also sir, When I read about Herzberg’s theory I realized that salary etc are only hygiene factors and it is actually the nature of the job…. (I was cut short here L)

M4: But don’t you think that people first join MNCs and then they just want to shift to the government?

CMT:  (my voice got a little firm here and I sounded offended) Sir, I did not join this company because it was an MNC or an Indian company. I wasn’t very comfortable working with machines and I wanted to be in a profession where I had to work with people. That is why I chose marketing. I am now choosing government because I think the interactions with people would be much more here. Sir I had grown up in Bihar in a time when I thought that governments don’t function. So I had plans to join the corporate sector. It was my experience in CSR that gave me the hope that governments can and do deliver well and I wanted to be a part of it.

M4: Hmm… (Gives a big smile again) But you are a science student and you have chosen Sociology and Public Administration as your optional. Don’t you think it is a bit “strange”?

CMT: (I had a bigger smile this time) Sir, In fact it is the science part which is strange in my bio data. I did not have much interest in science subjects but as parents wanted me to go to IIT so I landed up there. I did not perform too well in the Mechanical Engineering papers and it was at IIT that I first got exposed to sociology. I did three courses in Sociology and scored good grades in them and found the subject quite relevant to the happenings around me.

M4: (with a sarcastic smile) Then why did you go to IIT?

CMT: Sir because my parents told me to.

M4: And you didn’t have a choice, right? (said laughingly)

CMT: Yes Sir, at that age I didn’t have a strong conviction to decide my career on my own so I just followed what my parents said. (Everyone smiles )

M4: Also, I hear about a lot of suicides at IIT, especially IIT Kanpur. Why do you think they happen so much? It is so disturbing to know about them.

CMT: Yes sir, there are quite a few cases of suicides and it’s quite sad. In fact, in my four years of stay at IIT, I had witnessed eight suicides and all of them were because of academic reasons. I think the students who come to IITK are mostly school toppers throughout their life and are the blue-eyed boys of their teachers and parents and so they have high expectations of themselves. But at IIT, everyone is a school topper and in a relative grading scenario, some students are bound to be at the bottom. Some students aren’t able to take that downfall so easily and contemplate suicide.

M4: Is that all? Is nothing done about it?

CMT: No sir, at IITK, there is a Counseling Service which functions to ease out the stress in students’ life. A group of six first year students are assigned a second year student as their student guide who also guides them through their initial academic challenges. I was also a part of that Counseling service. Also we have a psychiatrist to counsel the students. I think the students need to understand that one grade up or down wouldn’t have such a huge impact on life. In fact, sir, once I too had scored very poorly in a subject and feared that I might get an F. I went to the professor. Dr. A.K. Mallik to ask him if I had passed the course or not. He told me very nicely that do not worry about one grade in one course because 15 years down the line it wouldn’t matter what grades you got in what subjects. Life is a learning journey and you will need to constantly perform in it.

M4: Ok. (Passes on back to Nirbhay Sharma)

NS: (after a small pause) Chandra Mohan, you were talking about brands some while ago. Have you noticed how fairness and white skin is such a craze in our society and how companies are exploiting this craze. There is this ad in which Shahrukh khan ridicules a wrestler because he uses a girl’s fairness cream and then he is shown using a lipstick also. Don’t you think such ads are quite demeaning? (I had not seen this ad, but I could guess that it is about Emami Fair and Handsome). Also in another ad, a shop girl gives contraceptives in place of change (He was referring to the Lava mobile ad, which I had seen, and also liked). Don’t you think that the morality is being ignored in such advertisements? Or do you think that it is okay in marketing to have such ads and it is just a reflection of the social change?

CMT: (I took a deliberate pause here and thought for some while) Sir, to some extent these ads do reflect the changes that are happening in our society. But I do agree that at times companies go a little overboard in an attempt to be creative and ignore the moral standards. But I wouldn’t place both the ads you cited in the same category.

NS: So which ad do you think is acceptable and which one is not?

CMT: Sir, I think the ad in which the shop girl gives contraceptives is acceptable as it shows that the youth is becoming more comfortable in dealing with contraceptives which is a good sign for the society. (He was pleased and smiled affirmatively)

NS: And why do you find the other ad unacceptable?

CMT: Sir, in the other ad, there is no social significance of such a campaign and it is just an attempt to malign the existing fairness brand (and with a grin I said) which is our brand, sir.

NS: So is that why you don’t like that ad because it maligns your brand?

CMT: No sir, I disapprove of it because of the genuine reason that it is a show of dirty competition. Also, not that our company is always on the right side. At times, we also go a little overboard in criticizing our competitors in our ads and when sued for such ads, we have to withdraw those ads.

NS: But that would happen only when the court gives the final verdict, right? By then many people would have already seen the ad.

CMT: No sir. As soon as a petition is filed against an ad, we have to stop airing it till the matter is subjudice. In fact, one of our Axe ads was challenged for being vulgar and we had to stop airing the ad. After the judgement, we had to show the ad after cutting the objectionable sections.

NS: Hmmm… you have heard about Wikileaks. What do you think? Such kind of journalism, I don’t know what will you call it cable journalism or whatever, is it a good thing or a bad thing?

CMT: Sir, While I respect the fact that Wikileaks states its intent to bring in more transparency in governance, I also feel that their focus seems tilted towards sensationalizing the issues more. In the recent  publications in the Hindu also, while the initial few articles did get some attention the later articles were merely sensationalized ones and not many people reacted.

NS: Give an example of such an article.

CMT: Sir, for example the article about Mr. Arun Jaitley’s comment on hindutva. Not many people found that it was such a crucial leak and an unnecessary noise was created around it. Also, Sir, I feel that in matters of diplomacy the national interest is paramount and if that requires some amount of secrecy, it is justified. Exposing such details which could jeopardize national security and national economies are not a healthy sign in journalism.

NS: So do you think such people should be held for creating so much trouble and should be jailed. You are about to join the government. How would you tackle these people? They are creating such ruckus.

CMT: Sir, But I also think that in India we are moving from secrecy being the rule to transparency being the rule and so we should react accordingly.

NS: But is it only an Indian phenomenon?

CMT: No sir, it is a global phenomenon.

NS: So how have the other countries reacted to it?

CMT: Sir, US has reacted very strongly against it. Cases have been framed against Jullian Assange and other charges have also been put on him in other nations. Also the military official who leaked the cables has been arrested and is being prosecuted presently.

NS: So what should we do with that official? He claims that he leaked the cables for the greater cause of humanity and he was helping cleanse the system. What do you think?

CMT: Sir, I think once he had pledged his allegiance to the army and the nation he should have stood by it. If he had strong difference of opinions, he should have probably quit the army and became a part of the civil society to raise voice against the system.

NS: So what should we do with Jullian Assange?

CMT: Sir, if he has violated some specific laws, he can be questioned in court and prosecuted as well.

NS: And what should we do with Mr. N. Ram of the Hindu? He is the one who went ahead and signed a deal with them. This way anybody would go and sign a deal and start creating havoc!!

CMT: (now I got a bit cautious and didn’t want to take too tough a stand) Sir, I think it is also a time for the government to do some introspection on the way it functions and acknowledge that the present system is more prone to openness and we need to be extra cautious.

NS: (quite displeased at this moral lecture) So we should handle our diplomacy being cautious, do you think it can be done that way?

CMT: Sir, earlier even district offices worked with secrecy but with coming up of RTI, they have changed their working style accordingly. In diplomacy too, I think it can be done although the national interests should always be paramount.

NS: Ok Chandra Mohan. That is all. Thank you.

CMT: (a little stunned with the sudden closure) Thank you sir.

(While walking out of the room I looked back again to gauge their expressions. NS had a blank look and was constantly staring me as I walked out. While closing the door, I said thank you again. He did not reply. It was 10:45 am when I came out of the room.)